On democracy, politics, the voter, the King (REPRODUCTION)
11 September, 2007 – The former deputy prime minister of Australia, Mr. Tim Fischer, 61, has been a politician since the age of 24. Passing through Bhutan this week, he shared his thoughts with Kuensel. (Excerpts)
Kuensel: Life after politics?
Mr. Fischer: It's busy. I am on five boards but it's enjoyable and I have most of my weekends at home. So I'm getting a better life and work balance since stepping down as deputy prime minister. I have three young children. They keep us busy.
Kuensel: What is your understanding of democracy?
Mr. Fischer: The people's right to choose a government, representatives, and to have a say that is meaningful, and which has substantive impact.
Kuensel: How should people choose the right party to power?
Mr. Fischer: Listen to the campaign on issues and the debates in Kuensel and other publications. I think there should be at least two debates between the two leaders of the major parties on radio and TV so it goes right across the country. One in the first weekend of the campaign and the other in the last weekend before polling day, so people can think it over. It's a matter for Bhutan, but I would urge that you have leaders debate at some stage, as well as the other debate where you can allow every candidate to go on radio and TV.
Kuensel: What do you think about the qualification criterion set for our candidates? Is that democratic?
Mr. Fischer: Having a university degree standard is unusual, not democratic in reality, but it is, nevertheless, a very high jump bar. Bhutan has made a decision with the best of intentions and I hope that there is a good balance of a wide cross-section of representatives selected at both the elections.
Kuensel: The political parties are facing difficulties finding candidates, is it normal?
Mr. Fischer: Yes I think it is. In Australia too, one or two seats are hard to fill. But I would like to make one key point, the concept of an opposition is a very important ingredient of a working parliamentary democracy. I was in opposition for 13 years in the Australian federal parliament. There, the people were a bit careless in their voting that we were not in government but in opposition for 13 long years. But I made a contribution to debates, highlighted particular issues and tried to work for the betterment of my electorate and the nation.
After March, you'll have a group of winners in government and a group in opposition and as a long-serving state and federal parliamentarian in Australia, people will need to get used to the role of opposition and it can be a very constructive role and it must not ever place in jeopardy the unity of the nation and the fabric of the nation.
Kuensel: What difference would a third political party make to the democratic process?
Mr. Fischer: I think in the beginning you're better off with just two major parties because it will become very complicated. But it's again Bhutan's call. Winston Churchill said that democracy is a bad form of government; it is the least worst form of government compared to everything else. He was sort of partly right.
Kuensel: In Australia voting is compulsory. Is that a good idea?
Mr. Fischer: For the first 27 years of the federation of Australia, voting was voluntary. Today voting is compulsory but all that means is you have to go to the polling place, have your name crossed off, but then you can go into the cubicle and you can write nothing on the ballot paper and put it in the bin. So in essence, it's compulsory to attend at the polling place but you don't have to actually cast a vote. You're starting with voluntary voting, I admire that and I think you'll get a very strong turn-out.
Kuensel: Why did Australia make it compulsory for its people to attend?
Mr. Fischer: It was just after World War I, just ahead of the great depression, and there was quite a sharp little debate late one night in the senate and some think to this day that the senators didn't realise that they had actually put the amendment in the bill. So there is a theory that it was partly accidental.
Kuensel: Democracy is always associated with dirty politics. Will Bhutan be any different?
Mr. Fischer: As your King wisely says, it will be helped by strong institutions, the courts, police and so I hope and think that you have a chance of being a great example to other nations. I know the deep-seated concerns but the main contestants have all had ministerial experience. But obviously we have to wait and see how it works out.
Kuensel: What do you think about ministers participating in politics?
Mr. Fischer: It's not what I think. I think it's left up to the people to decide if they want those ministers as representatives or not. I think it's not unreasonable and probably wise that some of the wisdom and experience from the previous governments of Bhutan will be sitting in the Assembly if that's the will of the people. The chances are that at least four or five, if not all seven, of those ministers contesting will get elected. But that's a matter for the people of Bhutan. I think a bit of experience should carry on in the new Assembly because you need to have a degree of experience in a democratic government. But I emphasise this is a matter for the people of Bhutan.
Kuensel: What role does bureaucracy play in democracy?
Mr. Fischer: A professional bureaucracy will have firstly a comprehensive set of departmental briefing papers for the incoming ministers, so that even if you have been a minister before, the secretary of that department will, on the first day, say congratulations minister, your bureaucracy stands ready to serve you and here is a comprehensive set of briefing papers in relation to whichever department and its detailed policies.
Secondly, they should, without fear or favour, give robust advice, point to the problem areas, point to possible solutions. They should remain neutral in the campaign and endeavour to remain neutral while serving the government of the day in the best of traditions.
Kuensel: How can bureaucracy remain neutral or independent of politics?
Mr. Fischer: Well, don't make public statements on elections or enter the debates of campaigns whether it's for the candidates, contestants or the public at large. If leader X comes out with statement Y saying we should adopt taxation policy Z, it's not for the bureaucrats to comment on that. Whether they like it or not, it does not matter. The opposition, other candidates and the people will take a view on it and leader X might or might not be elected Prime Minister.
The bureaucracy is required to provide options on how to implement policies. And they have the right, at that point, to put the pitfalls and problems associated with implementing reforms. But, ultimately, the decision is made by the parliament, assembly, ministers. So it's quite a clear-cut line.
It's a small country. The two areas where young democracies go wrong is in major contracts, tenders or public works. It is essential that you have a robust form of competitive tendering. Secondly, on transparency, I think to an extent possible, the governments should be up-front with the people and explain why they are adopting different policies and different priorities and try and bring the people with them.
Kuensel: Does Australia have an election commission?
Mr. Fischer: Yep, it's called the Australian Electoral Commission (AEC) and we have some linkages with yours as well.
Kuensel: What is the role of AEC?
Mr. Fischer: To conduct federal elections and, on request, conduct trade elections. It has helped conduct elections in East Timor. It has very modern procedures except it's all ballot papers and not electronic like Bhutan.
Kuensel: Whose responsibility is it to educate the voter?
Mr. Fischer: In Bhutan's situation, it is obviously the outgoing government and the system, election commission itself and, because it's your first election of this kind, I think candidates should spend five minutes of their 10-minute speech explaining to the voters. The responsibility is everybody's, the candidates as much as the outgoing government, election commission, and the media through relevant roles.
Kuensel: Do you have a statutory number of seats for women in parliament and should we have that in Bhutan?
Mr. Fischer: We don't. No one favours that. But in recent years, parties in Australia have women in similar positions. It's happened through merit, getting considered for becoming cabinet ministers, I think that's better than saying 25 percent of all positions will be held by women, because that gets a bit crazy.
Kuensel: How about for the youth?
Mr. Fischer: Well, I was in parliament at the age of 24 years after a couple of years in the army. I then served in parliament and federal for 30 years. So I started very early in Australia. That was back in 1971, I was able to win pre-selection for my party, and win a seat. So if you've got merit, able to go out there and win votes, there's no reason why some one in their 20s may beat someone in 60s or vice versa, it should be after a vigorous campaign and people will decide one way or the other.
Kuensel: Is it possible that a party with more funds could possibly win the elections? What has been the experience in Australia?
Mr. Fischer: When the big swings are on, it's almost academic in suburban seats and city seats as to how much money has been spent or not spent. If it's a big swing away from the government of the day, government members lose their seats even if government is spending more than the opposition. A good well-funded campaign obviously helps, but when the big swings are on, they sweep everybody, especially in suburban seats.
Kuensel: In Bhutan, political parties are not allowed to campaign even after having registered until the ECB notifies the campaign period. How is it in Australia?
Mr. Fischer: The formal campaign period starts when the prime minister goes to government house and asks for the dissolution of parliament and fixes the election dates. It doesn't mean you cannot campaign beforehand, but it does mean from that day on it's go-go. We tend to have a five-week campaign at the federal level and that springs into action when the election-day is announced. I think it makes sense that you have a fixed campaign date, but politicians are campaigning all the time.
Kuensel: What's the role of a King in democracy?
Mr. Fischer: In Australia, I think we should become a republic because we have a Queen, who lives in England, who supports British Rolls-Royce products. She is a wonderful person, but she is first and foremost the Queen of England.
I am a republican. I believe Australia should change to a governor-general or president and remain within the commonwealth of nations. But I sometimes think I should switch back when I see the strength of leadership from the fourth King of Bhutan, the world's first King-Father of the 21st century, and the fifth King whom I met on Thursday.
I'm very impressed by the strength of conviction and commitment of His Majesty the fifth King. He is an impressive leader of the nation.
(Kuensel, September 11, 2007)